This week we welcome American Association of Law Libraries leaders Jenny Foster, AALL President for 2025-2026, and Jessica Whytock, AALL Vice President and President-Elect. The conversation offers a preview of the 2026 AALL Annual Meeting & Conference in Cleveland, Ohio, along with a thoughtful look at how the association is supporting legal information professionals during a period of institutional, technological, and professional change.
Foster reflects on a leadership year focused on transparency, communication, and meaningful opportunities for member participation. From strengthening channels between members and AALL leadership to intentional volunteer appointments across committees and juries, she describes an association built through relationships. The goal is to ensure newer, mid-career, and seasoned law librarians all have a visible place in shaping the profession’s future.
Advocacy also plays a central role in the discussion. Foster explains how AALL continues its work on access to legal information, public policy, and coalition-building, even amid staffing transitions. The association’s Government Relations Committee has continued meeting with members, offering advocacy training, rebuilding connections with peer organizations, and aligning its work with AALL’s strategic priorities. For law librarians, advocacy is both a long-term commitment and a practical responsibility tied to preserving authoritative legal information.
The 2026 conference theme, “Leading with Aloha,” gives the Cleveland meeting its distinct point of view. Foster shares how aloha, rooted in kindness, unity, humility, patience, and meaningful connection, became a framework for leadership during uncertain times. More than 65 programs will explore topics ranging from generative AI and legal scholarship to physical collection strategy, access challenges, and the changing role of legal information professionals. Local programming connected to Cleveland’s history will bring an added sense of place to the gathering.
Whytock looks ahead to her upcoming presidency with a focus on clear pathways for engagement, leadership, grants, scholarships, committee service, and professional growth. Both leaders see artificial intelligence as a catalyst for a deeper conversation about the identity and value of legal information professionals. Their message is straightforward: the future of law librarianship rests in human judgment, critical thinking, ethical discernment, context, access, and a community willing to bring more voices into the room. The 2026 AALL Annual Meeting in Cleveland offers a place for those conversations to move from aspiration into action.
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[Special Thanks to Legal Technology Hub for their sponsoring this episode.]
Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com
Music: Jerry David DeCicca
Transcript:
Marlene Gebauer (00:00)
Hi, I’m Marlene Gebauer from The Geek in Review and I have Sam Moore here from Legal Technology Hub who’s going to tell us a little bit about analysis of token usage and model selection.
Sam Moore (00:11)
That’s right. Thank you, Marlene. Well, it is tokens, tokens everywhere. I think spurred on by the launch of Claude for legal, but certainly going back further than that. There’s an issue in the legal industry today around token usage in GenAI tools. And in the legal technology hub advisory team, we’ve had several conversations in the last week or two about this, both in terms of frontier models, but also in terms of the legal AI platforms.
And the topics we’re discussing with clients right now tend to fall into three interconnected topics. First is model selection, because a lot of these products give the users a choice of which model they want to use for a given prompt. But most users of these products really have no idea what the difference is. I’ve seen law firm clients whose users just pick the most sophisticated model for everything, toggle on every optional feature available.
and then are confused as to why responses are taking a long time and why they’re hitting token limits very, very quickly. The second’s around model context windows. I’ve had several conversations lately about what a context window even is and how it can create drift when it gets crowded in a chat’s context window and why that really matters for legal use cases, which often involve uploading quite large documents, which take up a lot of space in those context windows.
And finally, efficient token usage. Law firms and law departments, I think, are generally not that accustomed to this kind of pay-as-you-go model in technology. Not unless you’re like me and you recall when the big legal research platforms were on a pay-per-search basis. So now those users are running into high-cost overages on the frontier models in particular, and they’re realizing that low sticker price per month is not their reality, not when their users
don’t know how to use those tools efficiently and how to control cost. So as well as delivering advisory work on these topics on a one-to-one basis, we’re actually working on a series of articles for LTH Premium about these topics, which will then combine into a sort of playbook for our subscribers to keep handy when they’re working with Gen AI tools. And we expect to start putting out that content in early June.
And if people want to know more about LTH advisory and what we can do, they can always get in touch with us by going to legaltechnologyhub.com or by finding me on LinkedIn.
Marlene Gebauer (02:35)
Thank you, Sam, for keeping us informed about this important issue.
Sam Moore (02:39)
You’re welcome.
Marlene Gebauer (02:47)
Welcome to The Geek in Review, the podcast focused on innovative and creative ideas in the legal industry. I’m Marlene Gebauer.
Greg Lambert (02:55)
And I’m Greg Lambert, and today we are thrilled to welcome the leadership of the American Association of Law Libraries, or AALL. Joining us today is Jenny Foster, the 2025-2026 AALL President, and joining her is Jessica Whytock, the AALL Vice President and President-Elect.
Marlene Gebauer (03:01)
Yay.
Jenny and Jessica are here to preview the upcoming 2026 AALL Annual Meeting & Conference taking place in beautiful Cleveland, Ohio, this July, and to discuss the strategic direction of the association. So Jenny and Jessica, welcome to the show.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (03:32)
Aloha, thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it. Big fans of The Geek in Review.
Jessica Whytock (03:38)
It’s great to be here. Thank you.
Greg Lambert (03:40)
Yeah, and Marlene went to law school in Cleveland so bad memories there, so if you
Marlene Gebauer (03:47)
Not about
not about not about law school, no. It’s just
Jenny Foster (she/her) (03:51)
Crazy.
Greg Lambert (03:53)
Well, Jenny, welcome back. You joined us last year, and you were in Jessica’s shoes. So let’s talk a little bit about the presidency that you’ve had for almost a year now. I know you made a massive push for transparency and open communications within the association. In that time, I know you’ve doubled down on the eBriefing and the KnowItAALL newsletter, making sure that
that people have a direct line to leadership. On top of that, you focused on volunteerism, and there has been a whole lot going on. So talk to us a little bit about, you know, the internal and external policies you have set up, and how your year has gone.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (04:41)
Okay, how my year has gone? That’s a loaded question, Greg. I mean I think
Greg Lambert (04:45)
It’s been great.
Marlene Gebauer (04:46)
Ha
Jenny Foster (she/her) (04:49)
Everybody’s like, “How’s my year? How’s my day gone?” But, going back to transparency and open communication, your question, I was really thinking about the bones of communication and inviting people to participate in conversations with leadership. They were already there. And then, with Jessica’s help, working together intentionally, we were trying to uncover and remove barriers. What is the word? We wanted to be clear and intentional in inviting people to talk, share their perspectives, and, like you said, reach leadership. And one of the ways that we were thinking about engaging members was through volunteerism and intentional volunteerism. So I really think that
Well, as you know, Greg, right, you get elected to this position, right? And law librarians like to plan. We love a plan. We are not even in our roles before we begin thinking about vice chairs and appointments to the 42 juries and committees carrying out the work of our organization, and who we are inviting into that space. And then they will be working eventually alongside us in our presidential year. Jessica would have to speak for herself, but I know we were aligned when we were making those appointments, thinking about where members are in the organization. What setting are they in? Are they newer, experienced, mid-career, or seasoned professionals? What type of library? And really trying to be super intentional about inviting them to participate, right? Because for the newer folks and mid-career folks, these are our future leaders of the association, and they need to be invited to share space there. And then our seasoned professionals are the mentors helping people matriculate through our organization. When we invite folks into leadership spaces, it is such an opportunity to learn. I think about the spaces where I have served.
And you suddenly get put in a room with people you would not otherwise meet. But if I was only in my career track at the Hawaiʻi State Judiciary, I would have never met Jessica. What a travesty. Okay, because she’s brilliant, lovely, and I can’t wait to hand off the reins to you in July, Jessica. And I think about that also in my first committee, right? The Special Committee on Diversity, the Leadership Development Committee, and all the volunteers from all walks of life.
And then we want to create a space where people can share their perspectives, come to a disagreement sometimes because we have passionate members, but through that disagreement, really tackle the work of our association to come out with a better outcome. And we can’t do that if we don’t communicate clearly, if we don’t make space for communication in a way that’s helpful and helps each other, right? Like recognize each other. And that connection is what strengthens AALL now and in the future. Did you want to add anything, Jessica? I’m just like blah!
Jessica Whytock (07:53)
Jenny, I think the question was about your leadership year, so
Jenny Foster (she/her) (07:55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that is the other thing, too.
We are all connected to one another. I mean, the historic election, right? But I recognize that I was so humbled, the first resident from Hawaiʻi to be elected to this role in a hundred and twenty years. But before me came many fabulous leaders, like yourself, Greg, and BIPOC leaders. Like it’s not done in a vacuum. We’re all here in relationship with one another. And that’s really what I was focusing on this year is like how do we invite more voices to the table to, you know, further the legal information profession.
Jessica Whytock (08:29)
You know, Jenny, I actually will add something, which is Jenny is all effusive love and hearts, but what has impressed me is the smart, thoughtful person behind all of this who has a vision and a plan and also
Jenny Foster (she/her) (08:31)
Yes, please.
Jessica Whytock (08:54)
has an astounding amount of institutional knowledge that you just share at key decision-making points. So the one thing that I hope that people understand is that Jenny’s a tremendously strong leader and that we’ve been so lucky this year to have Jenny. And that as much as we love the Aloha and the hearts, there’s wisdom there that has made a big difference in what we’ve done this year.
I know.
Marlene Gebauer (09:22)
I know, I I’m like
Greg Lambert (09:24)
And luckily she’s she’s very quiet and muted and
Marlene Gebauer (09:27)
Ha ha ha
Jessica Whytock (09:29)
You know, she says all of the words so I don’t have to say them.
Greg Lambert (09:32)
Yeah.
Marlene Gebauer (09:34)
Well, AALL has always been very strong in terms of its advocacy arm and you know historically has had a very strong voice in Washington. you know, even with the transitions in the government relations role, and I was part of that committee at one time. You’re you know, your your administration hasn’t missed a beat. So, you know, you’ve been partnering with the ALA, issuing statements on IMLS funding.
opening up communications with ALA about filing amicus briefs. So you know, how is AALL ensuring that the advocacy needs of law librarians remain at the forefront at the national level?
Jenny Foster (she/her) (10:13)
Well, the first is really embracing it, as we know we have a vacancy operationally with our advocacy position. but we also had a vacancy with our executive director, which is really important, so we had to cross that bridge first. But even still one thing at a time. But it’s side by side with that, we were still working towards advocacy. So this is my love letter to the GRC, which you used to be on, Marlene. You were on a GRC committee. Thank you.
Marlene Gebauer (10:27)
One thing at a time.
Back in the day, yeah, I was. It was my first committee,
yeah.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (10:43)
My God, and it’s so amazing, right? You learn so much. And so this is my love letter to the chairs, Chris Lund and Kristina Chamorro, for their tremendous work this year. Supporting them has been important. Shameless plug for the eLearning platform: they recently held a national advocacy training with a congressman from New York, I believe. But more importantly, they have been consciously and intentionally meeting with members. So they’ve been meeting, doing these chapter meet and greets across the nation to really have a better understanding of what are the advocacy needs. Like things
Marlene Gebauer (10:45)
Mm-hmm.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (11:11)
Have changed since you since when I first started, probably since you were in the committee, right, Marlene? So we really need to evaluate what is effective and where our common goals are. But that’s also outlined in our strategic plans because we have an advocacy pillar in our strategic plan. So this is like working side by side, thinking about taking the temperature of our membership nationally. Where are they? Where can we come together? What do we need to move forward? Nurturing and reopening that communication with ALA was really something
Marlene Gebauer (11:17)
I’m sure it has.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (11:41)
something important to do this year. We are so happy those channels have opened. Thinking about other sister organizations in the advocacy space, aligning ourselves with them, and building coalitions. We are more visible when we come together, right? As RBG said, advocate for change, but do it in a way that invites people to join you. And, alongside our board action, we have been grappling with what advocacy looks like. How can we meet the needs of our strategic plan? Our amazing executive director brings advocacy experience from the work she did before joining us. Alongside our board’s advocacy vision and the nuts and bolts of the GRC’s work, all of that can coalesce and align to move this forward. So even though we’ve had a vacancy this year, we’re intentionally focusing on how to fill this gap while still meeting the advocacy goals that we hold so dear. So we are working on this like
I’m so happy with how this is going and you will see more. Remember, advocacy is a marathon, especially now. It’s a marathon, not a race. And so every little step that we can make will have a difference and I’m really pleased with the work that we’ve done this year. And then I get to hand it off to Jessica.
Greg Lambert (12:54)
Yeah, that was one of the things Jenny, you and I had in common, because we had searched for an executive director when I was president. So, fun
Jenny Foster (she/her) (13:05)
Yes, that is correct. Yes. Yes.
Greg Lambert (13:09)
Fun times. That is always interesting to watch, that transition. But I want to pull focus back to the conference coming up in July in Cleveland. And your theme is Leading with Aloha. What does that theme mean for you personally, and how does it show up across the more than 65 programs at this year’s meeting?
Jenny Foster (she/her) (13:43)
Thank you so much, Greg. I love this question. This could be like a whole podcast on itself, so I promise not to take up all the time. But going back to how law librarians love to plan. So you know, right now Jessica is already thinking about next summer in Philadelphia, and in the VP role, I was already thinking about Cleveland in 2026, right? So
And then I was trying to think about this gift that has been given to me to be the leader of our association. And then I always approach leadership with a service mentality, like what are the gifts that I can offer to the membership, to the organization. And then, remember, this was back in the fall of 2024.
There was a lot going on. My vice chair was in Chicago planning for Portland. And so I was walking my dog along the beautiful Koʻolau, thinking about all the changes that were about to come in 2025, remembering how chaotic it was in terms of access to legal information, thinking it was probably gonna come back. I’m just being descriptive. We know like government information exists one day and then it’s not on another day, and I just realized how much chaos was gonna be there. And then also thinking about
Being from Hawaiʻi, what was the gift that I could give? And I just, it was like, aloha, we will lead with aloha. In conversations about unpredictability, chaos, and fear, I have said that we are not hardwired for those things. But, actually, we are. And you know what those hard wires are?
Fight, flight, or fawn, and those might keep you alive, but they’re not a meaningful way to live and connect with others. So the antidote to unpredictability and chaos in my mind is meaningful connection. Because when we come together in meaningful connection and elevate one another, that is the antidote to fear and unpredictability because we can see with our own eyes that we can make positive differences in the colleagues that we work with, the communities that we serve. And aloha.
It’s all about nurturing that meaningful connection. So here’s my law librarian story time, okay? So aloha, which has been nurtured by the Indigenous population, Kānaka Maoli, or Native Hawaiians, for generations, right? It’s nothing new, but it was codified in the Hawaiʻi Revised Statutes in 1986. So this year makes the 40 year anniversary. And the reason that they did that is because they were infusing aloha into the highest levels of government decision making.
It says in the statute, right? It asks everybody to think about aloha in fulfilling their responsibilities and obligations as service to the people, the legislature, the governor, the chief justice, everybody.
And they even defined aloha. So I’m going to tell you the definition: ʻakahai, meaning kindness to be expressed with tenderness; lōkahi, meaning unity, to be expressed with harmony; ʻoluʻolu, meaning agreeable, to be expressed with pleasantness; haʻahaʻa, meaning humility, to be expressed with modesty; and ahonui, meaning patience, to be expressed with perseverance. All of those things, kindness, unity, agreeableness, humility, and patience, invite that connection.
And to face one another with that mindset, it takes two things. It takes courage because it’s really hard to be your authentic self. I think. I think it’s very brave to do that. And secondly, it really opens up the space to learn from each other, to be curious about all the different perspectives that we bring to the table. And
Leading with aloha, in terms of our programming, encompasses all of those things. We are already doing those things. We are bringing in programming where newer, mid-career, and experienced law librarians can learn from one another. We represent all the different library settings, all the different types of work that we do, and collaboration. I’m really excited about the work that we’re doing here and the intentional programming that our AMPC put together. I want to give a shout-out to our chair, Kelly Leong. The synergy was remarkable.
She is brilliant, wonderful, and intentional about how she led the committee, making sure different voices were incorporated in programming decisions. Kelly has family roots here in Hawaiʻi. Her dad is half Hawaiian, and she has grown up visiting. I get chicken skin thinking about the synergy of our coming together to develop this program for AALL and highlight our members through that connection. So we’ve got, you know, the Discussion Dens and the
hot topics that range from AI courses to access challenges and legal scholarship, balancing physical-collection needs with tightening budgets, GenAI, and how we integrate and guide its use in our institutions. We have a couple of interesting Marlene, you know, because you were there in Cleveland. We were just talking about it, about like all the different programming that is local to Cleveland. How do you say the river? I want to say it correctly. Cuyahoga. Cuyahoga River.
Greg Lambert (18:36)
Cuyahoga.
Jenny Silbiger (she/her) (18:38)
And how it was on fire, and the EPA was created in response to that. And then there was the grim serial-killer history from the 1930s, and the policies developed to try to solve that mystery. There is something there that elevates the community, the work that we do, and law librarianship in general. I mean, that is what was incorporated. Aloha was incorporated. But really, this is what we do every year when we come together in person at our annual meeting.
We come together for that connection piece. Okay, sorry, that was really long. You need to cut stuff down.
Greg Lambert (19:11)
A couple of comments there.
one, I’m I may need you to make sure that the the transcript spells everything correctly about the aloha.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (19:25)
For sure, for sure.
Greg Lambert (19:27)
And, when people think of librarians, they often think, “I would love to be a librarian because I love to read books.” That is about as far from what we do as it gets. AALL has three pillars, government, private, and academic librarians, plus our vendor allies. That diversity makes planning these events a challenge, but it also brings together different views under the same professional umbrella.
Jessica Whytock (20:20)
That diversity is one of the greatest strengths of our association, especially for me as an academic law librarian. I need to know what is happening in other libraries because it informs how we prepare students for their professional lives. And AALL has always provided this amazing opportunity for us to get together with our colleagues at different libraries and learn from them and see what their needs and interests are. Because of AALL and the people I have met there, I had a panel this year in my advanced legal research class. It came together quickly because everyone knew me from different programs we had done together and came in to teach my students what life will look like when they are out in the world. And so I love the fact that we are such a diverse group, representing all different types of libraries because it has added so much to my professional life. Yeah, I know, Jenny.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (21:39)
I feel the same. I love learning. And you know what, especially with the emergence of AI, I had Greg on a CLE here in Hawaiʻi a couple of years ago, was that two years ago, Greg? But I love hearing what the firms are doing with it and also and and I’m doing reconnaissance for the court so I’m learning about it. No, absolutely. Everything that you said, Jessica and Greg, thank you.
Marlene Gebauer (21:58)
I’m going to stay with the conference theme. Incorporating the locality into the conference is brilliant, because every location offers something different. It will be interesting to see how that works in Cleveland. But you know
We have heard a lot of buzz about the pre-conference activities, including hands-on workshops focused on copyright and fair use, and the return of the PLLIP Summit, the Private Law Librarians and Information Professionals Summit. So hooray for that. What are some
Jenny Foster (she/her) (22:41)
Ha ha ha.
Marlene Gebauer (22:45)
It seems like there is a lot going on, but people have to choose. What are some must-attend events before the official opening session?
Jenny Foster (she/her) (22:57)
You are so right, Marlene. I’m so excited. Yes, you’re right. The return of the PLLIP Summit has garnered a lot of attention and people are super excited. I guess. I don’t know. I’m sorry. I heard them calling PLLIP. I’m not in government.
Marlene Gebauer (23:05)
We call it PLLIP now? Okay. We always called it P-L-L-I-P, but I like PLLIP better, actually.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (23:14)
I think their theme is “Turn It Up! Amplify Your Practical Skills & Processes.” That is a turn I saw. I just got back from Canada, actually, and they were also talking a lot about AI, but really focusing on the practical applications. Like, tell me what works for you. How do you use it? I want to see what you’re talking about. And I think that is why they decided to do that. And then there are three others. There is “Libraries, Copyright & Fair Use,” which extends last year’s 101-level session into a more advanced discussion of how fair use shows up in day-to-day decisions and how to build confidence through real-world scenarios. And then I’m especially interested in “Re-Focusing in the Attention Economy” because that one is really about responding to the themes that we’re dealing with every day. Like, I had to turn off my phone, I had to close off 12 windows before we came onto this podcast, right? Because it’s a real thing, and what are the strategies to help your learners in such a digitally distracting environment. But my favorite is my love letter to CONELL, because that is our Conference of Newer Law Librarians. So if anyone is thinking about coming, if you’re a first-time attendee, if you switch careers or you’re a newer law librarian, I would love to see you there. And it is not a contest, but I hear that we have more CONELL registrants this year in Cleveland than we had last year. Again, not a contest. I’m just so excited that folks can come there and have that.
shared experience to kick off the conference. I remember being at my first CONELL. I love meeting newer law librarians who come to us. I still remember meeting people at last year’s CONELL. I’ll name-drop Devin Murphy, and there were others I met too. I love welcoming them in. So I’m super excited about that.
Greg Lambert (25:00)
It’s not a contest, but you won, right?
Jenny Foster (she/her) (25:03)
So those are some of them.
Marlene Gebauer (25:03)
Jess, did you have anything you wanted to add?
Jessica Whytock (25:05)
I’m really excited about CONELL and that so many people are participating. Everything sounds great. I know we are going to be busy, so we will not get to engage in as much programming as we would like. But getting the PLLIP Summit back feels great. But all of the pre-conference programming feels great. And I think it’s one of those situations where
Folks will find themselves having to make tough choices.
Marlene Gebauer (25:37)
Yeah. Well, from a personal perspective, if anyone’s on the fence about going to CONELL, I highly recommend that you do. For a few years, I led the session about what to expect at AALL for newer members, and it was a blast. You meet people, and as you said, they become lifelong friends. So go.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (25:50)
What?
Greg Lambert (26:03)
Yeah.
Yep.
Jessica Whytock (26:04)
I suspect we all remember our CONELL experience. I know I do.
Greg Lambert (26:10)
Yep, even when it was in the previous century, like mine. Mine was in 1999 in D.C., and I think I met Mark Gediman there. He and I are still hanging out, so.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (26:18)
Jessica Whytock (26:21)
No.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (26:23)
You’re a twentieth-century attendee.
Greg Lambert (26:26)
Yeah, my daughter. Yeah, whatever.
Greg Lambert (26:26)
So
So Jessica but before before we turn to you, I want this this actually applies to both you and Jenny. So Jenny, you know that when you hand over the gavel in it in Cleveland that no one will want to talk to you anymore. I was gonna say it’s it’s perfectly fine. So so Jessica just remember
Jenny Foster (she/her) (26:49)
Okay.
Marlene Gebauer (26:53)
But yet you will still have duties.
Greg Lambert (26:55)
This is this is gonna
Jenny Foster (she/her) (26:55)
Yeah, it it
Greg Lambert (26:56)
be
Jenny Foster (she/her) (26:56)
is true. I know.
Greg Lambert (26:56)
your huge year. Everyone’s gonna wanna talk to you, but don’t worry, at the end of it you’ll hand the gavel over to the next person and then no no one will talk to you again. So just words of wisdom.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (27:05)
I’m signed up.
I’m so there. I’m Jessica’s number one supporter. That is what my job is next year and I’m so looking forward to it.
Greg Lambert (27:12)
So, Jessica, as you prepare to step into the presidency in July, you bring a strong
background in advocacy, especially for the integrity of the profession. You’ve also co-chaired the Academic Law Libraries Special Interest Section white paper on continuing status and tenure, which is significant in academic settings. I want to step back. I know it is still early, but I know they picked up the phone and called you a couple of years ago and asked if you would run for this. Now that you are on the doorstep, what are some things you want to happen in your year?
Jessica Whytock (28:03)
Yeah, I have learned so much this year being on the board and one of my priorities of course is making sure that all of the good work Jenny has done continues that the relationship building continues, and that the systems that she put in place to just make sure that people have a a way to
to reach out and talk to us, and that those systems continue to exist even after my term is over. I do not think AALL always feels like now is the time when we see how important our profession is. And again, right now I’ve never seen such an important time to be a law librarian. Doing what we can to preserve access to authoritative legal information feels so important, even more important with AI and how now it changes how we access, how we interpret, how we use legal sources. So, making sure that we keep that at the forefront of what we’re doing during my term feels really key. But it is the internal growth and development of AALL that I really want to ensure is solid and strong. The association has made a big difference in my career, the people I have gotten to meet, the people I work with, the options and opportunities that are available to me. A lot of that is, of course, the work that we do every day at our own institutions matters tremendously, but it’s the connections that we make through different
positions at AALL, either just attending conferences or serving on a committee, or if you’re lucky to be in a leadership role doing that. So I want to focus on making sure that AALL makes it abundantly clear on how you can engage with the association. That might mean attending conferences or making sure you understand the grants and scholarships available to you. But
I really want to put systems in place that make it very transparent on how you can volunteer for a committee. How do you get chosen to chair a committee? I think the more that we make those pathways clear and available to people, the more we ensure that our association
represents our members and that people have a voice and that people know what they can do to take on these roles because they’re important and it is a lot of work, but it is a tremendous privilege and opportunity to serve on the board or to serve as a chair of a committee. And I want to make sure that the people who want to do that are able to do that and that people who did not even know it was something they could strive for see a really clear pathway, and steps people can take, to serve in AALL. So my goal is to strengthen our association by making sure that our members have really strong voices and pathways to join the association in any number of ways.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (31:16)
I love that with my whole heart. I cannot wait to support you. This year would not have been as successful without Jessica by my side and all the support from our board members. Like this is a collective group project.
Marlene Gebauer (31:22)
Yeah.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (31:29)
It is a collective group effort. I know we are in these roles for a reason. You wake up and do not know what role you are going to be in, but this is the one that was chosen for us. Jessica takes it seriously, and so do I. What a tremendous privilege and gift it is. I see Jessica striving hard to make meaningful impacts, and I am so appreciative of her help and I can’t wait, I’m so excited for her vision to come forward. Okay, sorry Marlene.
Marlene Gebauer (31:54)
No, no, that’s
okay. And I mean it sounds like you got some great goals to to strive for next year. well before we get to our crystal ball question, so as leaders of AALL and librarians who obviously read all the time, what what are one or two of the must read resources, you know, you know, committees or thinkers that you rely on to stay ahead of the curve in library administration and legal information?
Greg Lambert (32:08)
Yeah.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (32:22)
I
I love it. Are you asking us for a book list? Okay, I’m here for it, Marlene. For me, I zoom out a little bit. I love Dr. Brené Brown’s Dare to Lead and the BRAVING framework she has for leadership. I feel like that because leadership is an act of service. And I like zooming out: how can we be of service when we’re bringing ourselves into our workplace but then also for the association and in librarianship
Greg Lambert (32:27)
Yeah.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (32:50)
In general. And then also, and did you know, she started a brand-new podcast with Adam Grant. So it’s called The Curiosity Shop and it just launched, like I think they’re on their fourth or fifth episode. So I don’t know if you know, but like ten years ago they got into a public kerfuffle in The New York Times about vulnerability and when it’s appropriate to be vulnerable in the workplace and all of that. Anyway, but now they’ve come back full circle together and they are having such great conversations about leadership, about paradoxical thinking, making space for
diverse voices and what does that mean and then accountability but ethical integrity, it’s great. Those would be the two things that would be on my bookshelf for you to share. Now another time we can talk about the things we do for entertainment. What program are you watching?
Marlene Gebauer (33:32)
That will be after recording.
Jessica, do you have anything?
Jessica Whytock (33:39)
Well, you know, I’ll be honest, I have gone through a number of transitions the last few years and reading has not followed along. I have just not had the time. but I try to surround myself with people who model the behavior that I want to engage in and listen and learn. And I listen to people with whom I disagree and try to understand what their perspective is. So I’m not doing a lot of reading right now. I hope to do more reading in the future.
Marlene Gebauer (34:13)
I want our audience to understand that librarians do things other than reading. Most of the time.
Jessica Whytock (34:18)
Yeah.
Greg Lambert (34:18)
Yeah.
Jessica Whytock (34:21)
Yeah.
Because I do not have the time, I listen to and watch people I admire, see how they handle situations, and adopt what feels authentic to me.
Greg Lambert (34:38)
All right, now it is time for the crystal ball question. Jenny, we will start with you. looking into the future over the next few years, what do you think will be the biggest shift? We can focus this on AALL, but you know, what what do you see for the profession? Something that we need to prepare for now ’cause it’s gonna hit us later.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (34:48)
Okay.
Okay, I’m diving in here. I’m leaping off the cliff. This is a tough question. Thanks a lot. But
I think the biggest shift that we’re gonna see is this fundamental reimagining of what it means to be a legal information professional in our AI-integrated world. And not necessarily the technology itself, because I have faith in all of us. We can beta test it and learn it because we are teaching it, and the best way to learn something is to teach it. It is really about thinking about that identity question of who we are. What do we uniquely offer, and how do we communicate that to the organizations, communities, and institutions that we serve?
And we are already grappling with that question right now. I see our members stepping up in all the spaces. You, Greg, Emily, all the folks in the firm world, all the people in academia who are doing the innovation labs and all those things, and people in the courts too, we are a little behind, but we are still doing the best we can. Law librarians are stepping into leadership roles there, too. So I believe this with my whole heart. I know I talk to you about things from the heart, but I also have a brain, too. The answer is not to compete with the technology. It is to lean more deeply into the things that we do. The critical thinking that we do, the ethical discernment, the human judgment about context and nuance and access and equity that I don’t think algorithms can replicate. I mean, they cannot, right? Not yet. But the next generation of legal information professionals will need to be really fluent in all these tools, yes, but more importantly, then they’ll need to be anchored in our professional identity, our sense of purpose and service. And that’s where AALL comes in. Our work over the next several years, we have to cultivate that foundation through educational programming, through advocacy, our pipeline, and the ways Jessica discussed for engaging our members. Because this is the community that we will build together where
emerging professionals will feel valued, seen, supported, and empowered to step into those leadership roles because the future is not something that will happen to us. The future is something that we’re gonna build together. With aloha.
Greg Lambert (37:19)
All right. Kind of a hard one to follow.
Marlene Gebauer (37:25)
That’s fair.
Jessica Whytock (37:25)
You never benefit by talking after Jenny.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (37:29)
Jessica’s brilliant. She’s amazing.
Jessica Whytock (37:32)
I do not know. In a time of tremendous flux, it is hard to know what things will look like in five years. I do think one of the things that we need to do is make sure that we’re inviting the right people and voices in the room and that we don’t always just lean on our traditional colleagues and allies and that we think about who else needs to join conversations as you know
As we watch our profession and the legal industry change, it is going to be important to be flexible, adaptable, welcoming, and forward-thinking about who we need to talk to so that we are doing the work that we need to do and that we are teaching and training future lawyers to do the work that they need.
Greg Lambert (38:24)
Well, Jenny Foster and Jessica Whytock, thank you both for giving us a look at what is happening at AALL and at the upcoming conference in Cleveland. Thank you both for being here.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (38:37)
Mahalo, Greg. Will we see you there? Are you coming?
Greg Lambert (38:40)
I am coming. I will be there.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (38:42)
Yay, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure. Thank you, Marlene. I’m sad that we did not get to see Georgie, but hopefully next time.
Jessica Whytock (38:45)
Yeah.
Marlene Gebauer (38:45)
Thank you.
And thanks to all of you for listening to The Geek in Review. If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a colleague. We’d love to hear from you on LinkedIn and Substack.
Greg Lambert (38:58)
And Jenny, one last time for the listeners who want to learn more, register for the upcoming annual meeting in Cleveland, where do they need to go?
Jenny Foster (she/her) (39:08)
Go to AALLNET.org, where you will find our conference site. Or go to any AALL social channel, LinkedIn, Facebook, or Instagram. It is always there. Come join us. We would love to see you there. Aloha.
Greg Lambert (39:22)
We’ll make sure we also put links
in the show notes as well. Okay.
Jenny Foster (she/her) (39:25)
Okay, perfect.
Marlene Gebauer (39:28)
And as always, the music you hear is from Jerry David DeCicca. Thank you, Jerry, and goodbye, everybody.